[MCP] Capitalism and citing statistics

[Paul C. Gorski]

Bill,

You're getting into some complexities here. The numbers in the annual
report take into account Nike's ridiculous advertising budget, the money
it distributes in grants, and so on. If you follow a single pair of
basketball shoes--what it costs to make them (in labor and materials) and
sell them, that's where you see the markup. And, of course, the idea that
you'd look for evidence in a Nike report is a little odd...

This breakdown isn't exactly 300%, but it's also 10 years old:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lormand/poli/nike/nike101-8.htm

But back to my central point: You've made many claims on this list over
the years that haven't been backed up by numbers. Are you sure you're
holding yourself to the same standards to which you're holding others?

Paul


> I appreciate what you are saying, Paul. And, when we toss around numbers
> that don't add up, we are not doing ourselves any favors. We only weaken
> our own arguments.
>
> I just took a look at Nike's 2006 Annual Report
> (http://www.nike.com/nikebiz/investors/reporting_sec/ar_06/index.jsp;bsessionid=Z52JXASIKERUACQFTBECF4YKAWMEUIZB)
> filed with the SEC. I see a margin of 9.3% (net income of 1,392 on sales
> of 14,954 [in billions]). That's just a wee bit off from the 75% margins
> the claim of 300% markup implies. So, either someone has some data that
> the SEC ought to have, or something's amiss in the 300% markup number.
>
> Nike is still an obscene organization regardless of its profit margin,
> and, we don't need to fling unfounded numbers around to make the case.
>
> Bill B.
>
>
> Paul C. Gorski wrote:
>> I find this conversation very interesting for myriad reasons.
>>
>> When, suddenly, did we start requiring everybody to cite statistics for
>> every claim they made? Thousands of claims have been made on this list
>> over the years without quantitative data attached to them--several by
>> you,
>> Bill, and John, and me (including this claim).
>>
>> Examples of a 300% markup: nearly everything that Nike sells. The entire
>> diamond industry. Almost the entire pharmaceutical industry. The jeans
>> you're probably wearing right now...
>>
>> I think we also need to remember that racism as it has played out
>> historically in the U.S. is a function of capitalism. The roots of U.S.
>> racism are all about justifying economic exploitation. Slavery, as a
>> system, used racism as a justification for economic exploitation, as did
>> westward expansion and the Native American genocide, as does continuing
>> educational and housing inequities, as does the prison industrial
>> complex.
>>
>> This is crucial to all of our conversations here, because part of what
>> keeps any big movement for human rights from happening is that we become
>> bogged down in these identity politics without realizing that virtually
>> every form of oppression in the U.S. is, at its roots, about economic
>> exploitation, which means we're all getting screwed. And people of
>> privilege--myself included--are duped into doing the bidding of the
>> largely white male power-brokers because we're suckered into thinking
>> that
>> we're more like Bill Gates than like the other working class people
>> (including people of color, immigrants, and so on) who live down the
>> street.
>>
>> I believe we're missing an enormous point if we lose sight of the fact
>> that corporate capitalism is central to all inequity and injustice in
>> the
>> U.S. I don't see how we can understand racism or sexism or anything else
>> without acknowledging that one key fact.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>     From: DRashid1 at aol.com
>>>>
>>>>     Whether Botha's speech is fact or fiction, the reasoning is the
>>>> same.
>>>>     The power structure calls capitalism the profits they make by
>>>>     charging at least 300 % more than an item or service actually
>>>> cost.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> A 300% markup over cost is the same as saying costs x 4 (100% is 2X the
>>> cost, 200% 3X the cost, 300% 4X the cost). By costs, I'm assuming you
>>> mean all costs (cost of goods or services sold, selling costs, general
>>> and administrative costs, and labor). By your reckoning the average
>>> business ought to be consistently enjoying 75% profit margins (cost =
>>> $10, selling price=$40, profit=$30).
>>>
>>> Name one. (A citation would be helpful.)
>>>
>>> I'm not a huge fan of capitalism, and the harm it inflicts is
>>> substantial, and the harm's correlation to 75% profit margins is zero.
>>> In fact, a company can have 0.5% margins and still abuse people up and
>>> down the line.
>>>
>>> A little evidence-based thinking, if you please.
>>>
>>> Bill B.
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>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> There's nothing more practical than a good theory.
> 	-Lewin
>
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-- 
Paul C. Gorski
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